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What's happening in the federal IT community
By Monday, August 27, 2007 | 5:15 PM
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has released data to the public showing where guns, many of which used in violent crimes, come from. Now the public can go to the ATF Firearms Trace Data site to find out what kind of guns were used in what kind of violent crime and from which states those guns came. It takes a bit of clicking through the site to find out which states are the biggest supplier of guns, but it eventually becomes clear: Southern states (namely Texas, Georgia and Virginia) and California.
That information is important to states like New York, according to an editorial in NYDailyNews.com. Of the 6,085 guns traced in New York in 2006, only 29 percent came from a New York gun dealer, according to the ATF gun tracing Web site. The rest of the guns found their way to New York from other states. Those states, in descending order, were: Virginia, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina.
ATF is prohibited form releasing the names of the gun dealers in those states, but ATF gives that information to law enforcement agencies -- when they ask for it.
As illustrated by the Daily News editorial, this information could provide the fuel for a hot political fight among states. States that can show guns used in crimes come from other states can begin to demand those states begin cracking down on gun sales.
"By showing where crime guns come from, the figures pinpoint where the authorities must crack down on dealers feeding the flow of illegal weaponry," according to the Daily News editorial. "Past studies determined that 1 percent of dealers account for 55 percent of black-market guns."
That means Virginia and Georgia are going to be the subject of a lot of calls for them to do more to stop illegal gun sales. "According to ATF, weapons sold in Georgia and Virginia were used in crimes in 42 other states last year," according to the Daily News editorial. Virginia may just be getting the message, as an article in the Roanoke [Virginia] Times reveals.
Expect more on this. The gun trade and who's to blame has spilled over into presidential politics, and ATF's online data could only add fuel to the debate.
As an aside, ATF wasn't interested in starting a state feud. According to a Forbes article, ATF Director Michael Sullivan told reporters at ATF headquarters this month when the bureau released the data:
"My biggest concern is we have law enforcement departments out there that believe that they can't get access to [gun] trace information, so they're not even asking for it," Sullivan told reporters at ATF headquarters. "And it's undermining their ability to advance their investigations.""There's little that I can think of that they've requested that we can't provide to them," Sullivan said.
Comments
A lot of progress has been made with technology to make new guns only workable by the registered owner and the NRA has fought legislation requiring it. So, lets just simplify the justice system and make it so criminals who commit gun crimes get a fast trip though death row. That should include the criminal who illegally sells a gun. Would the NRA argue that?
People in general should never be trusted to own a gun. Only certain people, who can handle them responsibly, should be allowed to own them. Arming the populace to prevent crime is a fool's path to mayhem.
Robert M. | Tuesday, September 11, 2007 | 1:35 PMAnd using the same data base, how many guns left NY for its neighboring states and who used them?
Jim | Tuesday, September 11, 2007 | 7:35 AMRequire firearm safety,use(including marksmanship and concealed carry permit training) and laws governing ownership training to all during their educational years.I believe this would help. Then law abiding U.S.citizen 18 years or older,while not required to own or carry a firearm is free to do so and is encouraged too. I firmly believe that would be a good deterent to crime. Also make no laws or do away with any laws that prohibit concealed carrying. For example places open to the public. Criminals would be out numbered when attempting to commit a crime by the citizenary. Therefore a reduction in crime.
Fred Beaver | Tuesday, September 4, 2007 | 8:46 AMI don't understand the issue 29% of the guns came from outside NY but 100% of the crime was done by New Yorkers seems to me the problem is NY not guns
dan ketter | Friday, August 31, 2007 | 11:59 AMEver hear the term "straw" buyer? That's when the friend or relative of the criminal buys the gun legally and then gives or resells it to the criminal. They should make it a crime with a long jail term (5 years to life, depending on what crime was committed with the gun).
Hermy | Wednesday, August 29, 2007 | 5:35 AMI'm fascinated by the fear that is aroused in certain segments of the public if there is even the suggestion of a threat against the right to own a gun. What is the reason for this fear? Guns cannot protect the citizenry from the lies of the politicians that lead them into wars. Guns certainly don't make their owners any less gullible.
Cecile G | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 6:24 PMLet's solve the whole problem and make it illegal to commit a crime. If it were illegal to commit crime then obviously we wouldn't have any more crime. The criminals would obviously obey the law.
Also, let's see the statistics where a gun is used to prevent a crime. Maybe we should even see what state those guns come from and have the state where the crime was prevented pay the state that sold the gun for stopping the crime.
For those of you who don't understand, this is sarcasm.
David Schow | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 2:17 PMAnd according to official statistics most murders are committed with knives. America's kitchens and restaurants are loaded with weapons!
G. Larson | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 11:53 AMI've worked law enforcement and security in the past. I am one among many who legally and responsibly own and use firearms. I am not opposed to and have nothing to fear from background checks required to purchase firearms. I do think, however, that we have enough "gun control" laws on the books. Most of which make it easier for the bad guy to do his job. We should enforce the ones we have and quit trying to legislate the magic bullet, so to speak, that will eliminate gun violence.
Jack | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 11:36 AMSo what about the criminals buying the guns? Where are they traced to? How many were from New York? And how many people who have been caught lying on the ATF yellow sheets have been prosecuted? We've got plenty of laws out there but far too little enforcement. Maybe if the ATF showed some success in abating crime rather than generating press releases they'd get more money.
Bill | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 11:18 AMWatching guns 24/7, or under regulated sales of guns, please! Obviously you've never tried to purcahse a firearm from a dealer. My goodness, the article says that California is in the top 5 for where guns come from that are used in crimes. It isn't easy getting a gun in California, with all the regulations and "feel safe" laws they have enacted. I don't always see eye to eye with the NRA because I think they're too liberal sometimes but I have to give them credit to support our second ammendment right. It would be nice to see someone write an article that had some real fact in it especially a percentage of how many of thos guns coming from other states were stolen from the rightfull, law abiding owners.
Jared G. | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 10:32 AMVery Clever Allan, creating a whole new category of firearms called "crime guns." What exactly distinguishes a "crime gun" from any other gun?
Allan, Wayne, and Robert M.! Please review your American History. The reason this country is free and democratic is largely in part because of the Second Ammendment. Guns in the hands of competent law abiding citizens promote safety in our society. Trying to blame gun dealers and makers for crime is like blaming computer dealers and makers for SPAM and Hackers.
I see comments regarding guns used in illegal activities. I see nothing compelling about guns being illegally procured from dealers. All it says is they come from several states. And it doesn't say that the gun was legally purchased ten years ago, was subsequently stolen and used in a criminal act. All it says is it was purhased in Virginia (or Georgia or wherever).
I do know that in Virginia if you buy from a dealer, you are required to fill out paperwork with your personal information on it, provide two forms of ID that have your address on them, and get an instant background check from the State Police. While it isn't impossible to beat, it does point up what the state does to try and ensure the buyer is real and doesn't have a criminal record.
Gary | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 9:55 AMGreat POSTS!!!! The article doesn't say anything about Crime stats in the various states.
Think the solution here is to enforce all the laws including illegal immigration, when you have amnesty cities like Newark and DC crime is sky rocketing but they want to point the finger elsewhere
I think we should watch all guns, at all times, to be certain they don't engage in gun violence. As cheap as video cameras are now days, that should not be too difficult. Maybe we should levy a tax on Southerners, since they are the gun-toters to pay for the video surveillance cameras. After all guns are monitored 24-7 we can all breath easier.
wayne | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 9:39 AMVery biased article.
States and cities that restrict gun rights such as New York and Washinfton DC make obtaining firearms difficult or impossible, These anti-gun juristdiction create "gun crimes" by making otherwise legally obtained gun a crime in itself.
When they arrest these "criminals" (who may have done nothing wrong) the guns are added to the statistics. So it is no surprise that NY and DC get several hundred firearms from Virginia and other less restrictive states.
For example there was a case a few years ago where a former Navy man had legally purchased a handgun while stationed in Virginia. When he moved back to NY City he used it to shoot a home invader. The police arrested the gunowner and his firearm was counted amoung the statistics as a gun from Virginia.
Society is safer when criminals don't know who is armed.
Tony | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 9:17 AMThis sounds like another attempt on Gun Control, by the biased Liberal Media!
Anonymous | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 7:33 AMIt's illegal in most cases for a gun dealer to sell a gun to an out-of-state resident. You'd think a solution might be to require a "REAL ID" to show the buyer's proof of age and possibly their residency status.
Aaron | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 7:20 AMThe under regulated sale of guns has been a problem in ALL states and for longer time. Statistics really don't matter that much to the victims. I think that the powerful lobby of the NRA bears a great deal of the responsibility for holding back any effective legislation.
It's time for tough legislation and enforcement. How can the ATF be effective if they are underfunded?
The NRA needs to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Robert M. | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 6:14 AMFunny that this starts the finger pointing when the data says nothing. All the data is telling you is where a gun was found and where it was first sold. You must remember that guns used in crimes are stolen guns. The finger pointing is just more liberal feel-good activities that do nothing bennificial for anyone.
Bruce | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 5:51 AMI seem to recall a lot of guns coming down the other way in 1860s....
Bob Maler | Tuesday, August 28, 2007 | 4:47 AM